[Bugmeyer]

Switching to a 'like' system is a great move.

The truth of the matter is, people vote with their traffic. When someone doesn't click a thumbnail, it's as though they have voted 'dislike'. There is no reason to make an explicit interaction to tell someone that you are not a fan of their work. That is both discouraging and uninformative. Being ignored should be all the negative reinforcement that a community needs to provide.

The 'like' system is an added layer of positive reinforcement that builds on this natural order of traffic within the community. So I'm all for it.

This isn't youtube. No one here is creating content that we love to hate(Rebbecca Black). 'Disliking' and '1starring' doesn't make sense in a community designed to help people raise their standards and strive to be better.

[admin]

Someone commented directly to us that they can no longer evaluate how successful a piece of their work is in relation to another in their portfolio to help them improve.

If you want to see which of your works is most popular, you can go to your gallery main page, and sort by "highest rated" or "lowest rated." If you switch to the detailed view you can add "likes" to multiple pieces at the same time. ie. example

You can also view the most liked images of the day / all time using the drop down on the nav bar under images. We hope this helps a little!

[MikeCorriero]

Apologies, I have not read all the comments before making this post concerning my decision and opinion.
I chose the "Like" system (Facebook) - My reason:

I have always been very much against the star rating system for years and years for a number of reasons and I know there are benefits to the system but I think the disadvantages far outweigh the advantages 'rating threads' can provide.

In my opinion Advantages to Star Ratings

1. It's easy for members to quickly find threads that may be of inspiration to them, without the need to weed through every single thread. If their concern is time and to simply look for motivation.
2. It Provides members with incentive to push themselves harder to earn a higher rating, thus earning themselves more exposure - though this is a double edge sword and I'll explain why in the disadvantages.
3. Members have a say in what they feel is professional quality work, or work of a high quality standard that is of inspiration to them.

In my opinion Disadvantages to Star Ratings

1. Only the best professional quality work that end up with high star ratings get the most exposure. This is the double edge sword, where those who are looking for help and replies to further their skills end up with less exposure and those who don't need as much exposure end up with more than is necessary.
2. In some aspects, low star ratings can dismay certain individuals and the end result of a 3 or 2 star rating can cause some members to feel as if they should just give up. Especially when members only take the time to rate a low rating, without actually trying to help the member with a comment/crit/compliment. I can't even fathom why anyone would take the time to vote below 3 stars as it would only tell the person in an anonymous way that "someone" out there hates your work and has such little respect as not to even reply with a reason why they think it deserves so little. They won't take the time to tell you how to improve your work, but they have no problem letting you know they simply don't like it. What's the point?
3. Star rating systems are easily taken advantage of and seen as a form of "favoritism". In the past various acts of jealousy, vengeful or spiteful reasons for rating a thread 1 star or simply just boredom allow for an anonymous 1 star vote. Yes, in the end things tend to even out with the majority, but what exactly does this all tell us? I hate your work, I like your work.. it's as simple as that, so then if there are no comments or crits or compliments, what is the point of allowing a member to tell someone anonymously with a simple 1 star rating that they simply think "You Suck"?

Why I think the single "Like" option would help.

Isn't the point of a forum to bring artist together, to inspire, to network, to make friends, to learn, grow, improve, to help one another and motivate each other? The only thing I see a star rating system do is separate everyone and cause a sort of "contest" of popularity. The end result is those who are already popular become more popular and those who need and want the help hardly get any at all, and in some cases are actually knocked down farther.
So if most of the advantages and disadvantages lean toward finding threads that inspire you and giving members the option to voice their opinions on work they like or dislike. I think it would be more to the benefit of the community and members who don't see low star ratings as a form of encouragement if we cut out the dislike, hate, low rating aspect of this system. That simply leaves us with an option to say, hey I like your thread.
If threads were simply marked with "like" next to them after say 10+ members chose to like the thread rather than choosing to rate it 1 to 5 stars.. you keep the advantages and discard the disadvantages.
Popular members will still be singled out in the spotlight, but only with one option and it will discourage any form of jealousy, misuse or abuse of the star rating system. While it will still encourage those who don't have a "like" next to their thread to push themselves without being belittled and dismayed by seeing that their thread went from 3 stars to 2 stars because an anonymous individual decided to vote their thread 1 star because they think "they suck".

That's my opinion on both ends of the spectrum to these options and how the system is currently working against the community. It may seem overly exaggerated but I've been around art forums for 8+ years and I've seen this brought up NUMEROUS times, and usually the people rooting for the star system, are those who already have a high rating and want to keep their spotlight.

I currently have 5 stars on my sketchbook and I could care less.. stars tell me nothing if people don't reply with a comment, crit or compliment and I'd much rather receive a respectful, professional reply pointing out ways to improve over an anonymous low star rating that tells me nothing. It's all a factor of time and people feeling experienced enough to tell someone how they can improve their work, but if you have the time I think people would respect your opinion over a pointless star. In addition it will only further interaction among members if someone feels they have the need to say something concerning why they think the member's work needs improvment. Otherwise.. say nothing at all.

We see one drawback to a like/dislike option, that being getting lots of dislikes could hurt people's feelings, and do we really need to choose dislike, isn't not voting "like" enough?

Yea, if you provide a dislike option it still deviates from the whole point of removing a star rating system. People will still be capable of abusing it, hurting peoples feelings without necessary cause or reason. You either point out threads you like or provide a helpful crit. Telling people you dislike their work is just going to segregate members even farther.

It already seems though it's a close race, that more people are rooting to get rid of the rating system and would rather just use a system like facebook where you let people know what you 'Like".
Mike C -

[davepalumbo]

as someone who knows absolutely nothing about programing, I have to ask:

why are ratings (positive or negative) anonymous? Isn't that what opens the system to abuse? If instead there was a tab that said "x number of people dislike this: (list of users)" it seems it may stem spiteful votes. And to prevent dummy accounts for posting negative reviews anonymously, a minimum participation requirement of some sort (number of posts, number of uploads, time as a member, etc.) to discourage fake account voting.

Though in the end, I think Mike has a point that negative voting isn't entirely necessary. Whatever you do though, it seems image rating systems are going to be flawed. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, so go with what works best for sorting and browsing I guess. An equation of likes over views maybe?

[Columbussage]

Originally Posted by Izene

I like the system we have now,
I think the Like/Dislike(Youtube) is a bad idea.Its kinda like saying,I hate your picture :/ ...just saying~

Im down with that too. The like system seems more appropriate.

Nice touch cghub

[MikeCorriero]

If nothing else, based on the poll thus far and the semi-equal feedback of people who like how it is, or those who would like the change and see stars replaced by a "like" system.. it wouldn't hurt to try it out for 1 month and see what happens. We've had the star rating system for what..2 + years? and it has been used on other forums and I've seen similar threads pop up and similar favoritism, or segregation and spotlight or abuse of the ratings. So I say, try it for a month or two and if it's really that bad.. then change it back.

[oxpal]

Oh no - what is going on? I hate this new system :/
It makes using it completely pointless. Now it's just a "viewer count that bothers to click" amount.

This total fear of negative feedback (everywhere on the internet) is annoying me. Not every artwork I like is a masterpiece. Deal with it.
I dont get the reasons. So some people got bad ratings? So what. Either turn ratings off on your images if you can't take the heat, or ignore it.

Asking here in the forum with the tinyest sample of users was not a good idea either.

[idkfa]

Congratulations to all of you CGHub guys, for changing the rating system! In fact, I've rated only one time with anything different than 5, and it was 4! Its just natural and more cool, to keep things this way - like or not, if u don't like - dont rate. Judging other's works is very subjective and lot of people abuse with this privilege! Congrats once more time!

[JohnSilva]

Originally Posted by davepalumbo

as someone who knows absolutely nothing about programing, I have to ask:

why are ratings (positive or negative) anonymous? Isn't that what opens the system to abuse? If instead there was a tab that said "x number of people dislike this: (list of users)" it seems it may stem spiteful votes. And to prevent dummy accounts for posting negative reviews anonymously, a minimum participation requirement of some sort (number of posts, number of uploads, time as a member, etc.) to discourage fake account voting.

Though in the end, I think Mike has a point that negative voting isn't entirely necessary. Whatever you do though, it seems image rating systems are going to be flawed. Damned if you do and damned if you don't, so go with what works best for sorting and browsing I guess. An equation of likes over views maybe?

Ok, i must say that if the "LIKE" button wont be a good solution i would propose what just davepalumbo suggested, an open and "NON-PRIVATE" rating, thumbs up on that too.

[MikeCorriero]

Admin(s) - I see the "Like" system implemented into individual user profiles, but not on forum threads? Will you be incorporating this into the forum threads, because I think that was the whole point and that's where general interaction and or crits, abuse, favoritism and all that ends up being a big factor. I hope it will be implemented there as well.

Originally Posted by oxpal

This total fear of negative feedback (everywhere on the internet) is annoying me. Not every artwork I like is a masterpiece. Deal with it.
I don't get the reasons. So some people got bad ratings? So what. Either turn ratings off on your images if you can't take the heat, or ignore it....

I think you missed the point. It's not exactly fear of "negative feedback" though that DOES defeat the purpose of getting any kind of feedback in the first place. What's the point of 'giving' negative feedback? Unless it were a crit pointing out ways to improve an image, which in that case it's not negative it's a positive response. A star isn't negative feedback, it's an anonymous way to segregate members and to allow them to belittle someone's work without the need to comment or make themselves known.

This 'as far as I knew' was going to be incorporated into user forum threads IE; sketchbook threads. Everyone would more or less be on equal ground and it would stop the abuse of ratings and would hopefully encourage more participation among members. So in that sense, you currently can't turn off ratings on forum threads the same way you can on individual gallery images.

If you can't rate the thread and you think the user's work needs improvement then leave a crit instead of a crap (1 or 2) star rating. As I mentioned.. stars tell a member nothing, so what's the real point of rating a thread at all? If it's so you can voice your opinion on what you like, or to weed through to threads that are popular this will still be possible with the "like system".

Once again, concerning negative feedback, stars don't even provide this.. they provide no feedback whatsoever.

In general, if no ratings or likes or stars or anything were there to click.. I think more people might be inclined to "comment" and that's ultimately what the goal is; To encourage more user participation, more crits, compliments, comments, help, motivation. In the end, if you're looking for popular threads, you'll start to learn names and reputations more as you interact with the members more. I think this would actually be the best case scenario.

In addition Oxpal - this is by no means meant to offend you, but I think that users who are actually active on the forums, especially those who feel they have more of a need to improve may feel a crit over a star would be more beneficial. I noticed this is your first forum post, so perhaps that's why you might not have understood what this change is actually intended for.
So, although I see your initial response was toward the individual gallery set up (and I agree..changing the star system there where you can choose to opt out of allowing people to rate your image, is pointless) I still think the main goal is to encourage helpful crits. When people leave a comment, no one should expect sugar coated ass pats if they want to learn. However, this doesn't mean they should expect someone to tell them that they need to work harder and their work is crap, or to point out that it looks "wonky" as most people say when they don't know how to provide actual helpful critiques.

[kovah]

I dont mind the change but I still dont see why 1 or 2 stars is a negative thing. Nor have i seen any evidence what so ever of people abusing the system to put people down, the community here is really nice and while some people dont get stars its just because not everyone has clicked the button. I dont have any on my sketchbook but it doesnt bother me. (In fact only you Mike and Iconic have any at all on the first 3 pages but its not putting people off posting or improving :/ )

5 star = a complete masterpiece (master)
4 = Awesome (professional)
3 = great (hobbyist)
2 = good (amature)
1 = nice (beginner)

Though I think likes or points for useful crits might be a be an added feature to be looked at.

[arttorney]

Glad I don't give out stars then. I can't recall if I've ever seen anything on this site I would call "a complete masterpiece."

Here's what I thought they meant:

5 stars= Really hot pinup girl I right clicked, or else this artist competently copied Frazetta, Giger, Syd Mead without being too obvious about it, or is one of my friends who gave me 5 stars.

4 stars= I used to have five stars until somebody gave me a 1 star in order to knock my stars down

3 stars= I can't really figure out which famous guy this artist is attempting to copy and there is no cheesecake. Graded accordingly.

2 stars= Not only no cheesecake, but no zombies, space marines, toothy monsters, towers, space ships, or glazings of raw umber floating around in the sky

1 star= neener neener, I'm an anonymous person with a mouse on the internet

[pmoss]

** Edit ** The above post made me laugh alot! I need more cheescake in my paintings! Well said that bloke haha **


Whatever the system, I think the little red heart is a bit camp and looks a bit out of place. I would have gone for the old dull star (unrated) to gold star (liked) or something similar? Just a thought.

Having never thought about it before, I suppose I've never given an image a rating of below 5 stars (I just wouldnt rate it) for fear of being impolite... which sounds incredibley PC doesnt it? Also I get the impression that well known artists get 5stars for every image no matter the quality, or perhaps work gets 5stars due to content alone (i.e. it's X-men, I like X-men so heres 5stars even though it's painted in mushy peas) so perhaps it IS best just to acknowledge good work by a simple 'like' system. It's great to appreciate and acknowledge someones work on a particular project, so like it rather than rate it I say!

And I do like mushy peas, for the record

... well I've spent time writing this when I should be painting, sort-of shot myself in the foot there really.. bugger!

[dman3d]

It is a shame trolls and douchebags exist but they do.
I think the pre-made comment system may be a good option,
the "like" system works better than the stars system just due
to its short circuits the troll.

Maybe "Like" with a pre-made drop-down option.
I suppose if you look at the #views vs. #likes would tell
you how many out of the visitors like, dis-like or too lazy
to click a button.

User vote log would show who voted and in what way, though
that may worse if not awkward for everyone.

Maybe voting is only available to those with so much time
since signing up + so many images in their own gallery?
Or so many "thanks" or something, to show they are contributing
to the community.
(just read DavePalumbos post, like what he is saying)
but closed to an established member or what not
Perhaps members are "vetted" by moderators to have
the right to vote. Again, anti-troll security sort of.

[papaninja]

@Arttorney : + 1