[hakubaikou]

Sorry if this is in the wrong forum, but it's art related and deals with learning, and I didn't see a forum where it felt more appropriate. Is this forum about schools only? Or just art processes in general?

Anyway, a few weeks back, I was looking at a progression for a painting that a friend did. And I noticed that after the initial sketch, he works on all parts of the painting at once, gradually building and refining the painting as a whole. He said that it was something his teachers impressed upon him at school.

Having no formal art education, I never realized people worked this way until fairly recently when I started paying attention to progression pics. I tend to work on my artworks segment by segment or object by object. (Similar to how I eat dinner, now that I think about it. I never mix my side dishes with my main dish. But I digress....)

My friend said that some of his instructors were adamant about working the whole painting at once. While others didn't care as long as the final result looked okay.

I've tried doing paintings working everything at once, but I find that my attention fragments completely when I do that, and everything ends up looking half-assed. And I find it really difficult to concentrate and keep track of what I'm going. I forget things, and I get frustrated, because I can't see results as immediately, and I feel like I'm getting nothing done.

My friend said not to worry about this too much, but I'm very curious. What are the advantages to working a painting as a whole? Why is it encouraged? Is it very important? Or is it a matter of personal preference? And do you think it's something worth pursuing if one normally doesn't work that way?

[fongmingyun]

I try to work everything at once, so that it looks whole. But I have a bad tendency to focus in. So I need to take frequent breaks. When I work piece by piece, I often end up with a bunch of pieces that look good by themselves but very wonky when put together. However, when working piece by piece, I can almost always squeeze more patience out of myself and come out with a more detailed piece.

[Shalite]

I'm really not sure which one I do. After reading a bit on artist's techniques I almost always I try to develop everything slowly at once, as the above, because if there's anything wrong, I can fix it early, as was stated in some books and wherever I heard it. I always sketch, then lay down blocks of shape underneath on everything and start with the background first [usually] because I've had so many light source issues. xD! But even then, I kind of work separately on each part from then on; background, subject, minor subjects, and so forth, but in rotations sort of which kind of brings me back to 'working it as a whole'. |D; It's kind of a natural thing, so I guess it's personal preference more?

[hakubaikou]

Thanks for your thoughts, guys. Yeah, I was just curious since it seems a lot of people work this way. I never really know if what I'm doing is comparable to what's taught in schools. I like to know why things are taught the way they are. I assume there's a very good reason for it, and if I don't know why, it's usually worthwhile to find out.

[Shalite]

Well, for portrait drawing this year our teach' told us never to get real detailed until everything else in our drawing was placed down first so that we wouldn't have to erase a very detailed and deep valued eyes or mouth because it was positioned wrong or the proportions were off. :l As for digitally I've never really taken a class, but I'd assume that a piece might look more put-together or something along those lines. xD;

[axl99]

Bobby Chiu once subbed my lifedrawing teacher in class and told me this very zen piece of advice.

Once you've blocked in the shape of whatever you're drawing as a whole, find a place you'd like to start and "flow" to the rest of the image from there. Sometimes I like to start off with hands so I'll move to the forearm, shoulder, torso, hips, down one leg, up another, around the head and into the other arm.

Make sure to have all your shapes and construction lines down first, then build the details gradually in stages.

[jeffsimpsonkh]

I always start on the part I feel is the most fun to paint. I'm not good at planning, so often my images change composition DRAMATICALLY over the course of its development.

[axl99]

Oh yeah, if you still feel like your eyes are going all over the place, start from the inside outwards from the middle of the image then slowly work in a circular pattern from there.

[fongmingyun]

Originally Posted by axl99

Bobby Chiu once subbed my lifedrawing teacher in class and told me this very zen piece of advice.

Once you've blocked in the shape of whatever you're drawing as a whole, find a place you'd like to start and "flow" to the rest of the image from there. Sometimes I like to start off with hands so I'll move to the forearm, shoulder, torso, hips, down one leg, up another, around the head and into the other arm.

Make sure to have all your shapes and construction lines down first, then build the details gradually in stages.

yeah, i tried that after you told me at Otakon, and it worked really well to prevent overworking because i felt like, I could stop at certain points and not feel unfinished because I'd done the important parts. And it kept a notion of style and stroke, too.

[Seedling]

In painting this is sometimes called “working big to small”, and not only is it a good idea, for many types of projects it is absolutely vital. This approach allows you to get a feel for the finished product as a whole while it is still in a stage that can be easily overhauled. I use it not just for oil paintings, but for making models in Maya, painting textures, and for building game levels. This technique allows for you to add those minute finishing touches at the end – or, if time doesn’t permit, it allows you to leave off doing unnecessarily picky detail work. This process prevents you from going “crap, now I have to repaint an entire mountain to fix a bad composition, and obliterate a thousand perfectly rendered blades of grass in the process.” There is no way that I could do what I do on time and on budget if I didn’t work in this manner.

The sooner you get in the habit of working big to small, the better.

[hakubaikou]

Thanks for all the input and suggestions, everyone!

I do block my pictures out and figure out composition and lighting beforehand, but it's a really rough version. And afterwards, I tend to finish one segment at a time. I think I'll give the "working big to small" way another shot. I don't know if I'll still be scattered when I do it, but it can't hurt to try it at least.

[Seedling]

Like everything else, it takes some practice.

[joevriens]

I'm very inconsistent with my approach to every drawing/painting. There are times which I just start with the eye cuz its the most fun(like jeff I guess) and other times where I block it in a flow around ala Bobby Chiu I guess lol...and others where I start off painting clouds-see a face and build that up into something...then cut n paste that face into another file or flip it and warp it...then abandon the whole damn thing and get all pissed hahaha...sigh...

[Tirael]

Hmm, I guess I can only talk about the way I personally work...

When I paint, I usually start zoomed out - fitting the entire canvas on my screen and start blocking in random colors and keep working until I'm satisfied with it - then I'll start zooming in on parts that I want to refine - usually the face first and then move from there to the hands, and other parts I want the focus to be on... No part is completely finished until the end though when I add finishing touches, and I think I do jump all over the place on parts other than the face.

[GuerillaWarfare]

Every demo I've seen, and every worthy artist I've talked to about this topic works everything at once. The reason for this is that a good composition is the primary necessity for any successful artwork; and you can judge composition only if all shapes and values are roughly in place. What I've learned is:
-use bigger brushes for most of the painting until getting to fine detail. (Stroke economy)
-Constantly step back from the painting and try not to get much closer that arms length when laying down strokes. (always view the whole)
-Let the image gradually come into focus like viewing from a camera lens.
I'm sure there are exceptions, but I believe that is the most agreed upon method of efficiency. Even when it comes to figure drawing, students are taught to capture the pose or gesture before they get into rendering form and anatomy.